Legal Action - again!

[Brian Turner]

Oh, lordy - on one of my other forums, some critical comments were made about a certain company.

Today, I received a couple of calls from the company, demanding the removal of the thread containing the complaints.

Initially, I was happy to stand my ground - as it was run by my main company, Britecorp, I figured I could stand up to a potential libel suit, especially when I explained in an email that the supposed libellous complaints could actually be referenced against facts in the public domain - so in the yes of Britecorp, the accusation of libel was groundless.

However, a couple of things changed my mind.

First is the "tea test". I make the evening tea at home for the family. Nothing adventurous. But from past experience, if a conflict causes me to mess up on the tea-time schedule, then it's not something I'm supposed to fight. The first few times were due to flame wars in my early internet days, when I could get carried away and more easily offended. However, it taught me that if I couldn't control the conflict, then it's me who needs to rethink the situation.

Then someone posted an outright libel I couldn't defend on the thread, so I removed it, and emailed the person encouraging them to post facts instead of second-guessing company motives.

They replied back worried about their post being seen, and the potential consequences of this.

While I thought Britecorp robust enough to fight off a what I considered an unmerited lawsuit, it suddenly made me realise that every single person on the thread who had made negative comments, could also face lawsuits filed at them personally. And Britecorp would be forced to provide what details it could to do so, even if just email addresses and IPs.

There's just no way I could set up members of the community up for legal action, simply because I felt safe enough in the risk being directed at my company, rather than myself personally.

So in the end, despite arguing my case, I then thought about it and removed the thread, and sent a second email stating that after reconsideration, fighting a legal action would be an unwelcome distraction from company operations.

It did teach me a couple of things, though.

Firstly, the WHOIS info for the site could have been construed as being owned by myself personally, not Britecorp. I need to look at amending that for all my sites.

Secondly, I hadn't provided direct contact details on the site for any concerns to be raised directly (the company originally used the "report post feature), which again needs amending.

Thirdly, I realised that I'm going to have to set up a TOU plus rules for every one of my sites, so that I have clearer grounds to establish Britecorp's legal responsibilities, liabilities, and disclaimers.

A fun way to spend a Friday afternoon fighting off a lawsuit, but I'm pretty glad now that it's unlikely to progress any further.

And as it's Friday, I'm going to doubly enjoy putting my feet up after 9pm and opening a can of Bulmers, and watching some Frasier or Father Ted.

[DavidToohey]

Sorry to hear it... but curious what was said about who. Not to worry... hopefully it just sparks even more interest in the forums!

I like your tea test. Without such a structure format to my life the best I can think of coming up with is possibly a coffee test... that I know I am working too hard if I don't even make a coffee. Almost happened yesterday, may happen next week but gettign that involved in work is not often, although workign constant... usually when I get into spreadsheet work.

On the WHOIS... I don't think, would hope anyway, that it matters what name as it is only a domain owner, not the owner of the site who could essentially lease the domain. We also have a domain (or several) that are in individual names... small fee to change it though, and I hate the hassle with the online systems for this as I have had things just not happen in the past.

If you don't mind me asking... what is the worst legal problems or hassle you have faced to date with hosting forums?

[Brian Turner]

The worst so far is libel threats - had that against Platinax by a different company about 18 months ago.

The question of WHOIS - the danger is that in a situation where legal action may be considered against a site, a domain registered with personal details could indicate personal liability rather than corporate liability - and an aggressive lawyer could make a stab at the personal liability issue, not least because it raises the risk significantly.

As for coffee test - heh, I'm always failing that. However, I do at least have a kind of structure to my day. The "tea test" pretty determines whether I have lost control of an issue or not, and I figure losing control is not a good indicator.

With regards to legal battles - I think it's also required that you absolutely believe in the fight, in order to take it up. I know I took a fight to Comet over issues of the sale of a home entertainment system that didn't work properly, and after an editing battle on Wikipedia, I made sure my experience stuck for public reference.

2c.

[Tracy123]

Can you add a clause in your terms and conditions that states "you" or "your" company are not responsible for any defamatory or libellous comments made on the forum?

Just an idea

[Brian Turner]

I can make such a statement, but it would not hold under UK law - which has clearly been tested and shown that web publishers are indeed liable for comments that they publish on the site.

[UKSBD]

Originally Posted by Brian Turner

I can make such a statement, but it would hold under UK law - which has clearly been tested and shown that web publishers are indeed liable for comments that they publish on the site.

I presume that should be "would not" ?

[Nick Dyer]

Originally Posted by Brian Turner

I can make such a statement, but it would hold under UK law - which has clearly been tested and shown that web publishers are indeed liable for comments that they publish on the site.

As I understand it there are legal implications if the site is actually hosted outside of the UK. If the site is hosted in China then Chinese law governs the content of the site as it is being distributed from there. If the wanted to sue you for content then they would have to do it in China.

Regarding Whois, I would certainly recommend have the company name showing in the register.

[Brian Turner]

Originally Posted by UKSBD

I presume that should be "would not" ?

Good call - edited.

Originally Posted by Nick Dyer

As I understand it there are legal implications if the site is actually hosted outside of the UK. If the site is hosted in China then Chinese law governs the content of the site as it is being distributed from there. If the wanted to sue you for content then they would have to do it in China.

Regarding Whois, I would certainly recommend have the company name showing in the register.

It's possible - but I think I would need legal advice on whether a UK company publishing overseas comes under UK or overseas law as applicable.

In either event, was hosted in the UK.

[frauke]

If you know the number of times I have been threatened with Legal Action thats all it ever has been is "a threat". You are little more "visible" - but generally I have always ignored them - I will not even get into discussion about it, as I have always thought it is more likely to inflame the situation - and I think it is important that the accuser is seen in the worse light - and I "whiter than white"........

People are entitled to an opinion, and membership boards, aren't "the public domain"..... Some years (about 7, I think) ago a good friend was targeted by someone on firstly a personal nature, but it went beyond this - to the point the person contacted "his employer" (he was a director, but the person did not know it), to try and get him "sacked". The company was bidding for contract work for the Government, and the Government dept heard about it, and suggested they did not bid until it was sorted.

My friend told me his legal team told him there was nothing he could actually do - a libel suit costs typically £250K - and there is no guarentee of recoving costs even if you win!

This is the problem with court cases - people automatically presume if they win they will get costs. If you get costs, and they can't pay - well you can't get blood out of stone..... And as a relative of mine found out when he sued someone for breach of contact - he was awarded £50K, when he won his case, but it cost him £100K in legal costs which he had to fund himself. As he put it - he'd of been better off (£50K) not bothering....